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ESCHATOLOGY AND EUROPE AND PENTECOSTALS
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Would anyone like to give their opinion on how Pentecostals DO think about eschatology today?
What did they beleive about it that stimulated so much mission in the early 20thC that seems missing today? -the imminent arrival of Christ! Therefore there would be a judgement day and if we care for the world's people as God did (Jn2:16) then we should be urgent in sharing HIS message of the gospel! Some do and a lot do not! OR am I wrong?
Then how do we view politics of the world in the light of Christian eschatology? Zionism? How do other nations fit? Why does one side always want to identify the antichrist with their present antagonist -seeing it in egotistical cultural senses?
What is the basic HOPE we should be offering people- avoiding these potentially schismatic concerns from interpreting apocalytic genre literature???
Please share your ideas! [webmaster]
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15 Comments
I guess this depends upon which Pentecostals you are looking at. Most of the world's Pentecostals still have a fervent expectation of the return of the Christ. In the West, on the other hand, many of us have dulled our eschatological emphasis and expectation with the "this worldly" reassurance of our 501Ks, savings accounts, socialized medical care and other such governmental social safety nets. Affluence has molded our vision of immanence. Power in our hands has opened the door to political engagement, especially for North American Pentecostals. No longer do they feel powerless, nor are they. They walk with heads of state and gain media attention because they represent a growing voting bloc. Indeed. what is so troubling about losing an imminent eschatology if the need for it has diminished? After all, doesn't theology develop out of pressing issues faced by the Christian community? Clearly, for many, the need for an imminent return is not great.... My question is, as follows. What makes a Pentecostal, Pentecostal? Some time ago, I learned that part of that theological identity assumed an eschatological distinctive. If we have lost this, are we less Pentecostal; or are we on the way to losing that reality altogether?
I suppose it really depends on which arm of the pentecostal movement we are looking at. I grew up with a knot in my stomach over the fact that we were now in the end times and that soon people would start persecuting us or forcing us to take upon us the mark of the beast etc. I think an unhealthy overemphasis has caused the pendulum to swing the other direction.
Is an eschatology that drives people into ministry because they are certain the world is ending very very soon necessarily good? What's going to happen when people realize 30 years later that actually they could have gone to school and they could have prepared better? I know several people that precisely because of the emphasis on imminence did not pursue university studies, since they didn't want to waste time which could be used for evangelism. Today they find themselves at a disadvantage because of an unhealthy eschatology.
Being a young Pentecostal I find that I simply cannot accept the "traditional" pentecostal eschatology which is based on Biblical interpretation that does not stand scrutiny. The super-literal interpretation of the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation, an interpretation which largely ignores the historical background of these books, shouldn't be given any special treatment in the name of preserving our "identity."
Yes Jesus is coming and we will have to give an account for our lives. The focus should be on in light of that, not that this person is the anti-Christ and this international coalition is the beast etc. and therefore nothing that we are doing is worthwhile unless it is direct evangelism. I regularly preach on living our lives with our eyes on the finishing line, but I never preach about the "end-times." It's not about foreseeing a series of events, but rather to be prepared for whatever happens.
So if pentecostals are moving away from the simplistic super literal interpretation of selected books, that is a step forward I think.
I am personally a lot more worried about the dichotomy which seems to be brewing between those that are super-charismatic and open to strange doctrines and those that are doctrinally sound but lacking the gifts of grace (or at least not actively using them.)
For me the pentecostal identity is about being people full of joy and life, having an intimate walk with God and doing his will, this would be reflected in sensitivity to the Holy Spirit and in the practice of the gifts of the Spirit.
Is an eschatology that drives people into ministry because they are certain the world is ending very very soon necessarily good? What's going to happen when people realize 30 years later that actually they could have gone to school and they could have prepared better? I know several people that precisely because of the emphasis on imminence did not pursue university studies, since they didn't want to waste time which could be used for evangelism. Today they find themselves at a disadvantage because of an unhealthy eschatology.
Being a young Pentecostal I find that I simply cannot accept the "traditional" pentecostal eschatology which is based on Biblical interpretation that does not stand scrutiny. The super-literal interpretation of the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation, an interpretation which largely ignores the historical background of these books, shouldn't be given any special treatment in the name of preserving our "identity."
Yes Jesus is coming and we will have to give an account for our lives. The focus should be on in light of that, not that this person is the anti-Christ and this international coalition is the beast etc. and therefore nothing that we are doing is worthwhile unless it is direct evangelism. I regularly preach on living our lives with our eyes on the finishing line, but I never preach about the "end-times." It's not about foreseeing a series of events, but rather to be prepared for whatever happens.
So if pentecostals are moving away from the simplistic super literal interpretation of selected books, that is a step forward I think.
I am personally a lot more worried about the dichotomy which seems to be brewing between those that are super-charismatic and open to strange doctrines and those that are doctrinally sound but lacking the gifts of grace (or at least not actively using them.)
For me the pentecostal identity is about being people full of joy and life, having an intimate walk with God and doing his will, this would be reflected in sensitivity to the Holy Spirit and in the practice of the gifts of the Spirit.
Reply
Jon Newton
12:57 AM on February 21, 2010
I think there is a shift among Pentecostals in western countries away from dispensationalist eschatology to what I would call a missions-based eschatology, including a more positive expectation for the victory of the church in this age before Jesus comes again. Acts 1:6-8 and 2 Pet.3 imply that missions is the heart of our approach to the future and maybe even a condition of the return of Jesus. I have recently written a book called "Revelation Reclaimed" (Paternoster 2009) which explores the use and misuse of Revelation especially in Pentecostal-evangelical circles. Revelation is a missions-stimulating text rather than one that should create fear in believers' hearts.
Reply
Dave Garrard
05:43 AM on February 23, 2010
Western Pentecostals have for the most part avoided discussion on eschatological issues over the past 30 years because of the wide variance of views. We are too worried about offending one another. This is because biblical studies have become secondary for many and we have merely repeated the views of the schools of interpretation to which we belong. Dispensationalism which is an enigma in the first place and is basically antagonistic to the emphasis of the Spirit's work in the present day. I still can't understand why we embraced it so willingly. It was seen as the 'only' position Pentecostals could hold but that is no longer true. However, many, and especially Pentecostals in Britain, have fallen under the spell of fads. The most recent is that proposed by Anglicans and amillennial fuzziness about eschatology. We do need to get back to what is a clearer and more literal understanding of what both Jesus, Paul and the other NT authors saw as both a tension and a soon coming reality even if we find it diffcult to hold both together at the same time. The problem in the past has been that we have majored on individual events and what is happening in current world politics. This is where we have gone wrong and whenever we do this we only put off more who would otherwise be very interested in what Scripture has to say. I am not that naive that I don't recognise that interpretive matters will determine outcomes but if we accept that all of the central doctrines of the Bible are best understood from the clearest reading of Scripture then why should eschatology not be understood best by following the same procedures? We need to avoid a system which explains everything away and majors on allegory and spiritualisation. One thing is very clear and that is that the spirit of the anti-Christ is at work in our world in an unprecedented manner. Globalisation is the forum and Christians need to wake up and start believing that the absolutes of the Word of God still stand. Jesus will return, Judgement and accountability are going to be part of this and that there will be a very real and terrible outcome of a conscious and ongoing nature for all who do not believe. So yes missions and eschatology go together because those who do not know Christ will suffer an eternal punishment jusat as those who have submitted their wills to Christ will receive the benefit of his grace and forgiveness forever. So what is the church doing about it? Well the western Church seems to be asleep while the Two Thirds world church has become God's instrucment. Eschartology is not just a subject we can take or leave. It is the reality laid down more clearly than we like to admit that God has the final say and we had better get on board and do soemthign about it before it is too late and whether or not we agree about all the details. Active and passionate evangelism and missions (not just short term) are the only answer of the Pentecostal Church to any willingness to engage in the eschatological debate of the 21st Century.
Reply
Jon Newton
04:33 AM on February 24, 2010
Dave's comments are valuable and stirring though I'm worries that he falls into the trap he warns against when he focuses especially on globalisation. Perhaps this is a positive for the gospel in that it breaks down barriers against the transmission of the message?
Reply
Jon Newton
04:33 AM on February 24, 2010
Dave's comments are valuable and stirring though I'm worried that he falls into the trap he warns against when he focuses especially on globalisation. Perhaps this is a positive for the gospel in that it breaks down barriers against the transmission of the message?
Reply
Revd Dr David M Owen Ph.D., D.D.
11:34 AM on March 23, 2010
The return of the Lord Jesus Christ is the blessed hope (Titus 2:13) of all those who abide in the vine (Jn 15). The issues over pre/mid/post should not cloud our minds and stop us from preaching the wonderful truth of the Return of the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is true that at the beginning of the 1900s through to the 1950s there was a great emphasis placed on 'Eschatology/Missiology' [many sermons, studies and books were written on the subject during this period of time] and there was almost a rush if you like of preachers going to the mission field because the time was seen to be short. This of course was absolutely right for no one knows the day of His return (Matthew 24:36) and it is not for us to know the times and the seasons (Acts 1:7). This does not mean that the early men and women of God who proclaimed the message of the 'Soon coming King' were wrong; they were simply declaring the Biblical Truths of His Glorious Appearance. The return of the Lord Jesus Christ is a part of the 'Full Gospel' message, which we need to see preached again by the Church the body of Christ (Eph 2:21-22).
In connection with the question on 'politics and the end times', there has been much speculation over the years which has proved to be wrong, this is because men and women have placed their own understanding on isolated Scriptures (which can be made to say anything), rather than talking the whole of the Scriptures and building a sound biblical picture of what the Word of God which is inspired (2nd Tim 3:16) has to say.
When it comes to various understanding of groups of Zionists, Messianic or whatever else, we should see if what they are teaching is in line with the whole revealed Word of God, and to be honest some of the stuff I am hearing on Christian TV and reading in books is completely against the Word of Almighty God.
There has always been and there will always be those who have differing opinions. This should not stop the church declaring the truth of â??His Soon Returnâ??, if it offends then so what, Jesus said He came not to bring peace but division (Matthew 10:34) and like the apostle Paul, we will have enemies because we speak the truth (Gal 4:16), but is that not a part of the Christian walk, which Jesus declared would happen (Matt 5:10-12).
We have to declare the truth, because the truth sets men and women free (Jn 8:32).
It is true that at the beginning of the 1900s through to the 1950s there was a great emphasis placed on 'Eschatology/Missiology' [many sermons, studies and books were written on the subject during this period of time] and there was almost a rush if you like of preachers going to the mission field because the time was seen to be short. This of course was absolutely right for no one knows the day of His return (Matthew 24:36) and it is not for us to know the times and the seasons (Acts 1:7). This does not mean that the early men and women of God who proclaimed the message of the 'Soon coming King' were wrong; they were simply declaring the Biblical Truths of His Glorious Appearance. The return of the Lord Jesus Christ is a part of the 'Full Gospel' message, which we need to see preached again by the Church the body of Christ (Eph 2:21-22).
In connection with the question on 'politics and the end times', there has been much speculation over the years which has proved to be wrong, this is because men and women have placed their own understanding on isolated Scriptures (which can be made to say anything), rather than talking the whole of the Scriptures and building a sound biblical picture of what the Word of God which is inspired (2nd Tim 3:16) has to say.
When it comes to various understanding of groups of Zionists, Messianic or whatever else, we should see if what they are teaching is in line with the whole revealed Word of God, and to be honest some of the stuff I am hearing on Christian TV and reading in books is completely against the Word of Almighty God.
There has always been and there will always be those who have differing opinions. This should not stop the church declaring the truth of â??His Soon Returnâ??, if it offends then so what, Jesus said He came not to bring peace but division (Matthew 10:34) and like the apostle Paul, we will have enemies because we speak the truth (Gal 4:16), but is that not a part of the Christian walk, which Jesus declared would happen (Matt 5:10-12).
We have to declare the truth, because the truth sets men and women free (Jn 8:32).
The whole issue is one of urgency to proclaim the message. I speak from a situation in Wales where ealry Pentecostals were convinced that Jesus was coming today - hence this motivated them to mission. Also it is interesting to note that the socio-economic conditions with early 20th century Wales caused people to look beyond this worlds struggles to the hope of eternity. This prospect of eternal peace and release from the suffering of this world drove people to witness and also to respond to the hope of the gospel. I suggest that today especially in the 'western' church we are too comfortable with life to be overly concerned with spiritual tasks and hence we have losted the urgency to tell others about the glory of heaven and the prospect of judgement. Also is there not a need for Pentecostals to reconsider the emphasis of Spirit Baptism? Have we lost sight of the eschatological/missiological significance/emphasis of this expereince in preference for the experience itself? Acts 1:8. Experience alone should not be our driving force but pnuematology as a means to an end - publishing the gospel.
Reply
Jon Newton
06:29 PM on April 01, 2010
Chris' comments are a good challenge. This is what I mean by a missional eschatology or pneumatology: our task is to conquer the world in the sense of discipling the nations (Matt.28:18), our power to do that comes from the outpoured Holy Spirit (Acts 1:8) and the time-frame we have to do it in is the last days (Acts 2-3), the time before Jesus returns from heaven. So our focus towards the second coming should always be on missions and evangelism, not on speculation and date-setting. There is also another dimension we need to be aware of, the dimensions of martyrdom or suffering. "They overcame him by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony and they did not cling to life even in the face of death" (Rev.12:11).
BTW I have a blogsite on current eschatological nonsense. Go to www.jonknewton.com
BTW I have a blogsite on current eschatological nonsense. Go to www.jonknewton.com
Reply
Chris Palmer
04:08 AM on April 02, 2010
Thanks Jon - hope this adds to the debate. I totally agree that all this problem of date setting detracts from the true task in hand - publishing the gospel. The Lord did not tell the disciples to get their year planners out and pinpoint a date but to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Our task is very simple yet awesome in its implication as we are dealing with the eternal state of people's souls - what greater challenge awaits our involvement. As we are celebrating Easter are we living in Resurrection Power, Jn.16:7-15 especially endeavouring to glorify the Lord. Have a blessed Easter!
Reply
epta2007
04:47 PM on April 02, 2010
So with Easter here... the Hope we have -death to life- beyond the grave... is eschatological! That forms the good news we have to share... and live. Let's do it! Happy Easter!
Chris Palmer says...
Thanks Jon - hope this adds to the debate. I totally agree that all this problem of date setting detracts from the true task in hand - publishing the gospel. The Lord did not tell the disciples to get their year planners out and pinpoint a date but to go into all the world and preach the gospel. Our task is very simple yet awesome in its implication as we are dealing with the eternal state of people's souls - what greater challenge awaits our involvement. As we are celebrating Easter are we living in Resurrection Power, Jn.16:7-15 especially endeavouring to glorify the Lord. Have a blessed Easter!
Reply
febinbose
12:54 AM on April 05, 2010
pentecostal thrust on the parousia is vital but on the oher hand neglecting realties of life is very sad .iam writing fro india.back here pentecostal churches failed to meet the daily needs of the poor saying that everyrhing will be settled in heaven.But many Dalit or outcate rejected it and formed thier own religion..I AM WRITING AN MT.h thesis on the sugject and find it difficult find how CLASSICAL PENTCOSTALS HAVE ANSWERWD IT IF YOU WOULD LIKE HELP ME PLSE MAIL TO febinbose@gmail.com
Reply
Samuel Lee
08:32 AM on May 07, 2010
Hi dear friends. I am a kind of new comer at EPTA. Nice to join you all.
I am a pentecostal pastor & academic lecturer, and writer. On this moment I am writing a new book called "A New Kind of Pentecostalism". I don't think the eschatology itself is a problem. All Christians including us Pentecostals believe in that. What is the problem today is the commercialized, Hollywoodized eschatology. This kind of eschatology is a promoter of Zionism and everything that does not agree or criticizes zionism may be seen as anti-Christ.... to the Middle Eastern Christians (where I come from) this is very intimidating, because we view Western Christians often on the side of zionism, not forgetting that there are many Christians among the Arabs & Iranians....
This is my point of view that blindly accepting zionism is a from of idol worshiping, We as believers of Christ must bring balance in this by becoming bridge builders of love and respect between the Jews & Muslims & not firing it up by throwing more fuel on this sensitive issue...
I believe pentecostalism is on the edge of a transformation and there are many who begin to share the same ideas as mine...
If you are interested have a chance and visit my blog, I have written some articles that may interest you; like "I am still a Pentecostal", "Post Pentecostalism" + "95 concerns of Samuel Lee about the Church & condition of Christianity..." I am open for a respectful dialogue...
Blessings
Samuel Lee
Foundation University
I am a pentecostal pastor & academic lecturer, and writer. On this moment I am writing a new book called "A New Kind of Pentecostalism". I don't think the eschatology itself is a problem. All Christians including us Pentecostals believe in that. What is the problem today is the commercialized, Hollywoodized eschatology. This kind of eschatology is a promoter of Zionism and everything that does not agree or criticizes zionism may be seen as anti-Christ.... to the Middle Eastern Christians (where I come from) this is very intimidating, because we view Western Christians often on the side of zionism, not forgetting that there are many Christians among the Arabs & Iranians....
This is my point of view that blindly accepting zionism is a from of idol worshiping, We as believers of Christ must bring balance in this by becoming bridge builders of love and respect between the Jews & Muslims & not firing it up by throwing more fuel on this sensitive issue...
I believe pentecostalism is on the edge of a transformation and there are many who begin to share the same ideas as mine...
If you are interested have a chance and visit my blog, I have written some articles that may interest you; like "I am still a Pentecostal", "Post Pentecostalism" + "95 concerns of Samuel Lee about the Church & condition of Christianity..." I am open for a respectful dialogue...
Blessings
Samuel Lee
Foundation University
Reply
Jon Newton
08:51 PM on May 07, 2010
Samuel Lee says...
Hi dear friends. I am a kind of new comer at EPTA. Nice to join you all.
I am a pentecostal pastor & academic lecturer, and writer. On this moment I am writing a new book called "A New Kind of Pentecostalism". I don't think the eschatology itself is a problem. All Christians including us Pentecostals believe in that. What is the problem today is the commercialized, Hollywoodized eschatology. This kind of eschatology is a promoter of Zionism and everything that does not agree or criticizes zionism may be seen as anti-Christ.... to the Middle Eastern Christians (where I come from) this is very intimidating, because we view Western Christians often on the side of zionism, not forgetting that there are many Christians among the Arabs & Iranians....
This is my point of view that blindly accepting zionism is a from of idol worshiping, We as believers of Christ must bring balance in this by becoming bridge builders of love and respect between the Jews & Muslims & not firing it up by throwing more fuel on this sensitive issue...
I believe pentecostalism is on the edge of a transformation and there are many who begin to share the same ideas as mine...
If you are interested have a chance and visit my blog, I have written some articles that may interest you; like "I am still a Pentecostal", "Post Pentecostalism" + "95 concerns of Samuel Lee about the Church & condition of Christianity..." I am open for a respectful dialogue...
Blessings
Samuel Lee
Foundation University
Stimulating thoughts Samuel
I agree that Christians can't give total support to Zionism. But some of this support is based on a false dispensationalist eschatology that teaches God will ultimately deal mainly with Israel.
We ought to give more support and help to Christians in the Middle East rather than to unbelieving Jews. On the other hand, God still has a special concern for the Jews and we should be praying for their conversion. See Romans 11 especially on this. I believe this prayer requires us to at least support Israel's right to exist within secure boundaries, in view of the Holocaust as well
Reply
epta2007
06:47 AM on May 08, 2010
This theme has really got you writing!
I think Helga and Dave, Chris, Jon and now Samuel... not to name all of you... have got great points on this eschatological theme.
If you can help 'febinose' with his writing he would be grateful. At least Jon's new book is noted. Perhaps if Jon could send us the picture of it we could post it on the member's news page.
Do write on... There is a Mission flavour for the next issue of JEPTA. If anyone has an article to join those of Chris Palmer and a few others we would be happy to peruse it and send it to a peer reviewer and then once sorted
I think Helga and Dave, Chris, Jon and now Samuel... not to name all of you... have got great points on this eschatological theme.
If you can help 'febinose' with his writing he would be grateful. At least Jon's new book is noted. Perhaps if Jon could send us the picture of it we could post it on the member's news page.
Do write on... There is a Mission flavour for the next issue of JEPTA. If anyone has an article to join those of Chris Palmer and a few others we would be happy to peruse it and send it to a peer reviewer and then once sorted
by July please!!! says...
we can print it in time for the autumn edition!
[Jon Newton]
Stimulating thoughts Samuel
I agree that Christians can't give total support to Zionism. But some of this support is based on a false dispensationalist eschatology that teaches God will ultimately deal mainly with Israel.
We ought to give more support and help to Christians in the Middle East rather than to unbelieving Jews. On the other hand, God still has a special concern for the Jews and we should be praying for their conversion. See Romans 11 especially on this. I believe this prayer requires us to at least support Israel's right to exist within secure boundaries, in view of the Holocaust as well
